Comments on: My position on the Human Fertilisation & Embryology Bill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/ Left-wing news, opinion and activism Wed, 02 Dec 2015 19:06:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.11 By: thomas http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7730 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:54:01 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7730 Sunny,

I fully support points two (current rules on paternal responsibility need to change accordingly to encourage this) and three, but I think some more thought needs to be had about how the issue of choice impacts upon the possible contradiction between points one and four.

In an ideal world abortion would not be necessary, but that is pure utopianism so we must consider where we are. I agree that it is ultimately the woman’s right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, but an informed choice which takes into consideration all sides of the equation results in a better outcome with fewer negative consequences – mediation and consultation are the only ways to resolve the imbalance of rights.

The subject of deaf children is a false choice based upon a theoretical position of either/or, whereas reality is a case of one/the other or not – even in a case of twins each must be considered seperately, as they are each distinct individuals – so the issue only arises in legalities, not practice.

Why reduce questions of human existence down to defining doctrinaire political philosophy as a basis for campaigning action when doctors are taught to treat the patient (as Mund will tell us)? That is why this is an area requiring a free vote – the dangers of turning this into a totemic partisan rallying point are all to apparent on the other side of the Atlantic

]]> By: Anax http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7729 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:48:18 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7729 If hearing parents want to ensure a hearing child, do they get the same rights as deaf parents to pursue this?

]]> By: douglas clark http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7726 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:04:36 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7726 Sunny,

I agree with your first three points. I don’t think the last point should ever be part of a Liberal Manifesto. I have much the same opinion as Mund @ 24 on that. No-one has the ‘right’ to inflict a disability on another.

]]> By: Mund http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7723 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:25:03 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7723 If my parents had made me deaf purposefully I would sue them, the state that allowed it and any-one else in sight. Absolutely dispicable crime to that childs life.

]]> By: sanbikinoraion http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7674 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:42:50 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7674 not giving children who we know will be born deaf even the chance to be born is more inhumane

In doing so, you are still discarding a bunch of (hearing) embryos. Either way you work it, some embryos die. Nobody wants to be born deaf, or blind, or paralyzed. Give it up already.

]]> By: Publicansdecoy http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7673 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:30:39 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7673 I fully support your first three points Sunny. On point #4, I’m with Unity:

it is better to go for an opt-out position position in which parents could elect no to have a foetus screened for deafness and take their chances the same as everyone else.

]]> By: Margin4 Error http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7672 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:26:21 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7672 Sorry UK Liberty – I said far more than I needed to and got confused about who was arguing what.

I just don’t like the straw man notion that this is about allowing deaf children to be born.

]]> By: ukliberty http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7671 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:53:50 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7671 M4E, that’s pretty much what I’ve been trying to say – see comment 2.

]]> By: Margin4 Error http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7670 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:45:13 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7670 ukliberty

the question on deafness isn’t about “alowing deaf people to be born” – its about using IVF technology to make your child deaf.

That means (to be blunt) inflicting disability. It is not the same as choosing not to abort a pregnancy because the child will be deaf when born.

And while deaf culture has moved recently towards considering itself a unique culture rather than a mere product of disability – being deaf removes the right to choose a different culture when the child is born and grows up.

]]> By: ukliberty http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7662 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:38:01 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7662 I don’t think being born deaf is inhumane and i don’t think allowing deaf people to be born is inflicting pain on them. Sunny, with respect, those seem absurd comments to make. And your paragraph about choice seems just plain wrong given that there are deaf would-be parents in the media saying they want the right to deliberately select for deafness.

]]> By: Sunny Hundal http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7661 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:17:09 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7661 Lol, no plans to run for a Labour seat (or that of any other party) any time soon!

I didn’t expect anyone to agree with my position on deaf children, but my view is that not giving children who we know will be born deaf even the chance to be born is more inhumane than giving them that chance.

The problem is that we think being born deaf is inhumane, while deaf people think its not. Given they have more experience on the matter, I think I’d take their side.

Besides, right now we are deliberately screening out ‘abnormalities’. Deaf people are not in favour of actively wanting a deaf kid but saying that if the choice arises then they should be allowed to state a preference. What is wrong with that?

Surely the only value judgement being made is: ‘allowing deaf people to be born is inflicting pain on them‘? I can see why deaf people don’t agree with that, since they don’t see themselves as abnormal etc.

]]> By: leon http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7650 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:30:16 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7650 Brandy? Heh this is one of the more diverse thread derails I’ve seen lately…

]]> By: Jennie http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7648 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:22:51 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7648 LOL you want to meet the other members of the Jenny collective. My chest is tiny.

Oh dear, I appear to have completely deraailed this thread… Oh well. At least it’s friendlier than what’s going on over in the Hillary thread…

Fancy a nice brandy? I’ve got a bottle here

* proffers *

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7646 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:17:37 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7646 Only…?

]]> By: Jennie http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7645 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:15:23 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7645 Indeed. They’re only a D cup.

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7644 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:13:04 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7644 good thing i didn’t write:

what big tits

]]> By: Jennie http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7643 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:12:04 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7643 “what tits.”

Thank you! They were better pre-childbirth, though 😉

* runs away *

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7640 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:06:04 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7640 yep with you there Jennie. why would anyone wish even a mild disability on their kid? you cope with it if it comes along, but you don’t choose it for them. what tits.

]]> By: Jennie http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7639 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:00:12 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7639 Very strongly with you on the first three, not at all on the last. A hearing child can participate fully in deaf culture; a deaf child cannot participate in hearing culture. Intentionally restricting the options your child will have is (at best) very selfish and (at worst) downright cruel.

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7638 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:57:15 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7638 Wow man. I would have thought you could put a dead dog up against any of them now and the dog would win every time.

]]> By: leon http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7637 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:55:17 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7637 Yep, well just about!

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7635 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:44:51 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7635 now that is news.

is there such a thing as a safe seat in the Labour party?

]]> By: leon http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7633 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:20:00 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7633

I’m going to start by briefly laying out my position on the bill.

Heh you’ve been saying that a lot lately, one would think you’ve been offered a safe seat by the Labour party and are in the process of setting out your policy positions ahead of an announcement…:D

]]> By: Unity http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7629 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:38:14 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7629 For the most part, I have no issues but one the selection of embryos question I think that the idea of actively selecting for deafness won’t fly. Tactically, it is better to go for an opt-out position position in which parents could elect no to have a foetus screened for deafness and take their chances the same as everyone else.

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7628 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:34:45 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/01/my-position-on-the-human-fertilisation-embryology-bill/#comment-7628 ‘Would also note that I think too much attention has been paid to that particular case (the deaf parents), though.

I’m not aware of any other disabled would-be parents (the blind, the partially paralysed) commenting on it.’

I meant the press.

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