I do like that Dave Osler post, interesting stuff. Shame the comments thread has been invaded rather.

The milne article is one of the most dishonest, unprincipled pieces of despicable garbage I’ve ever read. if milne was, himself, religious, then he might have a respectable point about arguing “within” religions; but he *isn’t* religious. As a Stalinist, he is -presumably – an atheist. So his entire case is built upon a lie…and a patronising, racist lie at that. Atheism is good enough for a public school educated stalinist like milne, but not for the simple, third-world people he champions. They can’t move beyond ignorant superstiion (according to Milne).

And this lover of totalitarianism dares accuse us rationalists and atheists of being advocates of war, racism and globalised capitalism! How dare he! he lines up with the God-botherer Galloway in opposing the Human Embryo Bill and condems millions to suffering and premature death! and – by the way – what was his attitude towards the Muslim people of Afghanistan when the Soviet Union invaded in 1978/9? I seem to rember Mr Milne *supporting* that piece of rank imperialism.

Somehow I don’t think I’ll be taking any lessons in intellectual consistency, human decency, liberation, anti-racism or rationality from Mr Milne, thank you very much.

Re the Milne article:

i cannot see myself at the crux of his article. He says:

“Entirely missing from their perspective is the social context and significance of the religious resurgence they are so anxious to beat back.”

Err, no. I am sitting here quite confident that there is no religious resurgence that requires beating back.

“Panicked by the rise of radical Islamism and the newly assertive religious identity of migrant communities in a secular Europe, the anti-religious evangelists are increasingly using atheism as a banner for the defence of the global liberal capitalist order and the wars fought since 2001 to assert its dominance.”

No to that too. I am a bit concerned about religious fruitcakes that might wish to blow us up, but to assert that that implies assent to a global liberal capitalist order is somewhat of a stretch. And in any case what is ‘liberal’ doing in such a sentence? It seems a bit of an orphan. As an atheist, I believe in ‘live and let live’, and although there is no atheist credo, I’d be surprised, shocked even, if most atheists didn’t subscribe to that.

Oh. And I am a bit anti war too.

“At the same time, they are unable to recognise the ethnic dimension of their Islamophobia, let alone the deeper reasons why people continue to search for spiritual meaning in a grossly destructive economic environment where social alternatives have been pronounced dead and narcissistic consumption is king”

I don’t think, as a good little atheist, I recognise myself there either. I have, for better or worse, an equal opportunities viewpoint on the religious. That they are deluding themselves. And I don’t care much if you are my next door neighbour or a follower of some sort of Polynesian cargo cult. The point is the delusion, not the ethnicity.

I’d agree that narcissistic consumption has replaced common sense. That might, indeed, be a common enough viewpoint. amongst believers and unbelievers equally.