Hence in areas like Newham you find a combination of both an engaging Labour Party and an emphasis on the fact the BNP are a racist threat.

Unity

again – if getting more people to vote is “playing the electoral system” then as a democrat I consider “playing the electoral system” to be a pre-requisite of a moral human being.

Yes, yes you do, which is why this abhorent rhetoric about simply barking that the BNP shouldn’t be in power because they’re nazi’s isn’t acceptable. You don’t win an argument simply by playing playgound politics and saying that other kid stole your crisps.

If you want to beat the BNP in the long term you have to show that everyone one of their arguments are either false or already dealt with by a much less xenophobic policy of your own. I agree with what Unity is saying because he is saying that simply trying to create some kind of moral outcry against the BNP because they’re the BNP isn’t a sufficient argument and never would be.

I have seen the sorts of people that table motions and campaigns in the same vein that Unity is lambasting in his post, and they don’t give a shit about dealing with constituencies and the public’s worries, they just care about supposedly “silencing” a fascist organisation, which is always a fallacy since people like the BNP just use that act as a way to promote themselves further as if they are the persecuted minority that they actually appeal to.

London’s electoral system is complicated and very few people understand how it works. If someone is not that bothered whether Boris or Ken becomes Mayor so would not usually bother going to vote, but is really bothered about the idea of a BNP member on the Assembly, then it is not gaming the system to give them information likely to persuade them to vote. This is particularly the case in parts of London where there are high levels of hostility to the BNP and where they haven’t previously been active – which also tend to be some of the areas where turnout is low.

My beef here is with the relentlessly negative tone of Jasper et al and the assumptions that underpin that ‘strategy’.

If all someone can suggest as a means of taking on the BNP is to ‘play the electoral system’ rather than get in on the ground and work to actually reduce the BNP vote and persuade people that their best interests are served by a non-racist party then they’ve basically given up and that community and if they’ve given up then I personally don’t want to know.

Core BNP membership has never gone much about 8,000 and if you were to pull together the membership of all the various right-wing splinter groups you’d struggle to get up into the 15-20,000 bracket.

That’s the real extent of the core racist vote – or perhaps white supremacist is a better way of putting it – the number of people in the UK whose racism stems from a definable theory of race, the kind that’s pretty much intractable.

Beyond that core, the racism that’s out there in poor white communities is the ignorant variety and as I said, ignorance can be countered and overcome.

Bottom line, I’ve been actively fighting racism for well over 20 years and unlike Jasper and his self-styled ‘race-warriors’ I’ve been doing it at the sharp end – in the white communities where the racists live.

If you want to assess Jasper’s record, or that of any ‘race equality’ organisation then trying asking them how much time they’ve spent working in white communities to change attitudes there over the years – you may well find they’ve done a bit of work in the schools, but you’ll be really lucky to find many who’ve worked in the actual community.

I assumed ‘the argument’ was that immigrants and people with different coloour skin are not taking jobs/homes/unfair attention from ‘brits’ (white ones).

–

Unity

Sorry for the hostile tone of my reply – I’ve just read it again and it was a lot more harsh than I itended.

These defensive pieces of Lee Jasper are beginning to annoy me. Regardless of all the accusations of nepotism (which me one political party that isn’t), Lee Jasper should have gone ages ago. He’s a relic of the “race relations industry”.

Good riddance Lee Jasper

If you want to beat the BNP long term – you need to wn the argument and keep winning it.

Contrast labour’s fortunes in Barking and Newham. The profiles of both areas are very similar – but a vibrant and engaging local labour party in Newham continues to see off the BNP without breaking a sweat – while in Barking a complacent and sterile local party effectively left the door wide open.

However – many many people don’t want to engage and don’t listen to the argument. Especially when the economy is benign and society relatively stable.

So a shock tactic, like in the advertising industry, can help get attention.

getting their attention is pointless if you then behave like Barking’s labour party and not bother to win the argument and engage in communities. But trying to engage and win the argument in newham would have been just as pointless without getting their attention.

Unity

you say we live in a democracy and use that as a reason why people should not campaign by whatever legal means they feel suitable to win a political argument….

what kind of hypocricy is that?

“The simple fact that Arnold blatantly overlooks here is that we live in a democracy, and if 5% (or more) of Londoners are dumb enough and/or pissed off enough with mainstream parties to vote BNP in the mistake belief that its usual coterie of racists, misogynists, scumbags, knuckledraggers and low grade morons will actually do anything to make their lives even the slightest bit better then let ‘em give it ago – some folks will only ever get the message if they’re given the chance to learn things the hard way and if some people insist on doing really dumb things, like voting BNP, then who am I to deprive them of the opportunity.

Likewise

You attack people for trying to encourage people to vote as “playing the electoral system”

so

by your estimates I (and presumably all democrats) would be proud to help ‘play the electoral system’ and ‘overlook that we live in a democracy’

A great article, sums up my feelings on this issue perfectly.