Comments on: The Sun’s attempt to puncture its own emotional balloon http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/ Left-wing news, opinion and activism Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:05:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Sherri Whitehead http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-88437 Sherri Whitehead Thu, 03 Dec 2009 08:25:17 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-88437 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Liberal Conspiracy » The Sun's attempt to puncture its own... http://tinyurl.com/yd499pv</span></span> Liberal Conspiracy » The Sun's attempt to puncture its own… http://tinyurl.com/yd499pv

]]> By: Patsy Mcbride http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-84373 Patsy Mcbride Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:12:52 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-84373 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Liberal Conspiracy » The Sun's attempt to puncture its own... http://tinyurl.com/ydd34se</span></span> Liberal Conspiracy » The Sun's attempt to puncture its own… http://tinyurl.com/ydd34se

]]> By: Capital Punishment - The Liverpool Way http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-22623 Capital Punishment - The Liverpool Way Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:54:14 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-22623 [...] of the death penalty. Maybe I'm being too generous to the mentality of those 'readers' though. Liberal Conspiracy ? The Sun’s attempt to puncture its own emotional balloon | creating a new ... __________________ But the money's no good Just get a grip on [...] [...] of the death penalty. Maybe I’m being too generous to the mentality of those ‘readers’ though. Liberal Conspiracy ? The Sun’s attempt to puncture its own emotional balloon | creating a new … __________________ But the money’s no good Just get a grip on [...]

]]> By: septicisle http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-6002 septicisle Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:42:19 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-6002 I thought I pointed out throughout the piece how it seems to be doing just that. I thought I pointed out throughout the piece how it seems to be doing just that.

]]> By: cjcjc http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5979 cjcjc Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:15:34 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5979 By the way I not quite sure how splashing its vote results on the front page constitutes any kind of attempt to puncture anything or to calm things down? By the way I not quite sure how splashing its vote results on the front page constitutes any kind of attempt to puncture anything or to calm things down?

]]> By: Lee Griffin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5975 Lee Griffin Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:47:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5975 5. Labour's crime legacy is very interesting. Crime is indeed "down" from the high that it had climbed to before the beginning of the Labour reign. They have essentially returned crime to 1990 and earlier levels, and If anything what they have actually done is slow the rate of decline. I wouldn't be so crass as to say they have failed because the decline has been slower the longer they've gone on, just that those are the facts. <a href="http://www.griffindor.org.uk/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1203672043&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2,12,36,162&" rel="nofollow">Like with many of their claims </a> a little bit of history goes a long way. As for the put down, if it is "de haut en bas" to expect people to be informed, autonimously if needs be, before forming an opinion then by god I am proud to be ;) 5. Labour’s crime legacy is very interesting. Crime is indeed “down” from the high that it had climbed to before the beginning of the Labour reign. They have essentially returned crime to 1990 and earlier levels, and If anything what they have actually done is slow the rate of decline. I wouldn’t be so crass as to say they have failed because the decline has been slower the longer they’ve gone on, just that those are the facts. Like with many of their claims
 a little bit of history goes a long way.

As for the put down, if it is “de haut en bas” to expect people to be informed, autonimously if needs be, before forming an opinion then by god I am proud to be ;)

]]> By: septicisle http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5973 septicisle Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:33:54 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5973 cjcjcj: No, not at all. What I find fascinating, as expressed in the piece, is that the Sun routinely demands the harshest penalties around, makes the most out of the most rarest and disturbing crimes to conclude that the whole country's going to hell in a handcart, often recruiting the victims' families to mount their own campaign for change, which often involve them calling for the return of capital punishment without the newspaper at the time ever saying it doesn't agree, and then it seems thoroughly worried to the point of shock when the same readers then demand what they've often given legions of space to. As said in the piece, even the 95,000 that phoned the hotline, if you even accept those are all separate individuals, make up only 3% of the Sun's actual sales readership. I'm certainly not suggesting that all those in favour of bringing back capital punishment are a Sun-reading mob, far from it, but as even the Sun admits, most, far from considering it an active deterrent, for which there's little evidence, simply want it back so those who dealt out death themselves are also executed. Revenge simply can't be a part of a criminal justice system. cjcjcj: No, not at all. What I find fascinating, as expressed in the piece, is that the Sun routinely demands the harshest penalties around, makes the most out of the most rarest and disturbing crimes to conclude that the whole country’s going to hell in a handcart, often recruiting the victims’ families to mount their own campaign for change, which often involve them calling for the return of capital punishment without the newspaper at the time ever saying it doesn’t agree, and then it seems thoroughly worried to the point of shock when the same readers then demand what they’ve often given legions of space to. As said in the piece, even the 95,000 that phoned the hotline, if you even accept those are all separate individuals, make up only 3% of the Sun’s actual sales readership.

I’m certainly not suggesting that all those in favour of bringing back capital punishment are a Sun-reading mob, far from it, but as even the Sun admits, most, far from considering it an active deterrent, for which there’s little evidence, simply want it back so those who dealt out death themselves are also executed. Revenge simply can’t be a part of a criminal justice system.

]]> By: cjcjc http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5956 cjcjc Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:13:21 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5956 "worked" = crime is (as I am constantly told by Polly Toynbee) down across most categories "I don’t have a great faith in this people of this country in general" = the default de haut en bas liberal position :-) “worked” = crime is (as I am constantly told by Polly Toynbee) down across most categories

“I don’t have a great faith in this people of this country in general” = the default de haut en bas liberal position :-)

]]> By: Lee Griffin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5954 Lee Griffin Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:54:41 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5954 define "worked"? I mean reoffending rates haven't dropped and people are being put in to prison for barely any reason these days, when community orders and compulsory programmes would be much more efficient at combating the long term crime statistics and wouldn't actually cultivate a situation where reoffending is the best option. The prisons are only full because the government gave in to the whim of people that agree with the sun and made changes to appear much tougher on crime. I don't have a great faith in this people of this country in general, so I personally would categorise a great deal of that 50% in to the "mob" category when it comes to subjective, emotive subjects. I've only met a mere handful that ever manage to eloquently put a case for the death penalty that I can only disagree with on personal preference terms. define “worked”? I mean reoffending rates haven’t dropped and people are being put in to prison for barely any reason these days, when community orders and compulsory programmes would be much more efficient at combating the long term crime statistics and wouldn’t actually cultivate a situation where reoffending is the best option.

The prisons are only full because the government gave in to the whim of people that agree with the sun and made changes to appear much tougher on crime. I don’t have a great faith in this people of this country in general, so I personally would categorise a great deal of that 50% in to the “mob” category when it comes to subjective, emotive subjects. I’ve only met a mere handful that ever manage to eloquently put a case for the death penalty that I can only disagree with on personal preference terms.

]]> By: cjcjc http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5941 cjcjc Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:45:38 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5941 This is one of the most patronising pieces I have ever read. Are readers of the Sun (I know several) really a "mob" which needs to be "controlled"? Are the editors supposed to be somehow worried that riots and lynchings might break out at any moment? Opinion polling I believe suggests that around 50% of people would restore capital punishment. Are they all members of the Sun-reading "mob"? (I'm not in favour myself by the way, but would like to see a greater number of 'whole life' tariffs.) "Yes, the jails are too full, but that’s not just the fault of the government but of the very same newspapers that have demanded ever tougher punishments, got them, and then demanded even harsher sentences." Well there should have been more places built sooner. Simple. And criminals are not sent to prison on a whim, are they? Only after *multiple* convictions in most cases. Prisoners up = most crime down. The policy which you appear to despise seems (so far) to have worked, doesn't it. This is one of the most patronising pieces I have ever read.
Are readers of the Sun (I know several) really a “mob” which needs to be “controlled”?
Are the editors supposed to be somehow worried that riots and lynchings might break out at any moment?

Opinion polling I believe suggests that around 50% of people would restore capital punishment.
Are they all members of the Sun-reading “mob”?
(I’m not in favour myself by the way, but would like to see a greater number of ‘whole life’ tariffs.)

“Yes, the jails are too full, but that’s not just the fault of the government but of the very same newspapers that have demanded ever tougher punishments, got them, and then demanded even harsher sentences.”
Well there should have been more places built sooner. Simple.
And criminals are not sent to prison on a whim, are they?
Only after *multiple* convictions in most cases.

Prisoners up = most crime down.
The policy which you appear to despise seems (so far) to have worked, doesn’t it.

]]> By: septicisle http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5910 septicisle Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:00:49 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5910 Yes, quite true. Sunny has edited the post down ever so slightly; if you want to read a few more convoluted sentences, they're over here: http://www.septicisle.info/2008/02/scum-watch-lesson-in-attempting-to.html Yes, quite true.

Sunny has edited the post down ever so slightly; if you want to read a few more convoluted sentences, they’re over here: http://www.septicisle.info/2008/02/scum-watch-lesson-in-attempting-to.html

]]> By: john b http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5908 john b Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:12:33 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/02/27/the-suns-attempt-to-puncture-its-own-emotional-ballon/#comment-5908 "Despite common belief, life sentences have never meant life in this country" No, life sentences have *always* meant life and continue to do so. A criminal who's sentenced to 10 years imprisonment can be released on parole before the full length is up, while remaining subject to recall to prison if she breaches her parole conditions. This does not mean she didn't receive a 10-year term in the first place. Similarly, someone who's sentenced to life imprisonment is on parole and subject to recall if they break parole conditions until the full length is up - i.e. for the rest of their life. (good piece overall - it's just the 'life not meaning life' quote that's an annoying hang-em-flog-em talking point...) “Despite common belief, life sentences have never meant life in this country”

No, life sentences have *always* meant life and continue to do so.

A criminal who’s sentenced to 10 years imprisonment can be released on parole before the full length is up, while remaining subject to recall to prison if she breaches her parole conditions. This does not mean she didn’t receive a 10-year term in the first place.

Similarly, someone who’s sentenced to life imprisonment is on parole and subject to recall if they break parole conditions until the full length is up – i.e. for the rest of their life.

(good piece overall – it’s just the ‘life not meaning life’ quote that’s an annoying hang-em-flog-em talking point…)

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