You really must try to develop a sense of humour, Matt…

…no, tell you what – let’s try and answer your question seriously.

Over the last, what, 40 years the nature of the relationship between the British people and the monarchy has changed substantially. It is much less deferential but, more to the point, our overall view of the monarchy is much more akin to that which prevailed at the time of the English Civil War in the sense that many, if not a majority, view the monarchy not as having an intrinsic institutional value but as having a value predicated on the character and performance of the incumbent monarch – this being argument that sent Charles I to the block.

Republican sentiment is low because public perception of the present monarch is good – change the monarch and that can change and change rapidly.

In the past the institution of the monarchy has survived under even the poorest monarch but the future is, I would venture, much less certain such that the next occasion that the vagaries of heredity throws up a John, Richard II or George IV could well be the last.

I don’t accept that christianity is in any sense privelidged in education but leaving that aside, laws that privelidge any faith would become unnecessary under a voucher system. Vouchers would enable a market in education and the market will (so the theory goes) provide an education based on whatever faith/ideology the majority of parents want. It won’t solve the problem though. Given economies of scale, schools below a certain size wouldn’t be viable, ao if you happen to live in a predomiantely muslim/christian/jewish/whatever catchement area, your local schools could still be faith schools whether they are called that or not. You still would not have a guranteed choice of a secular school (although in my book secular = state and isn’t “ideology free”).

And you really think you can disestablish the church of England and set up a republic just like that, i.e without the minor distractions of a civil war/revolution ? What if the Army refused to accept they had “the people” as their new C in C ?

I always found the idea of a ‘faith school’ somewhat tautological, as it is an act of affirmative belief to attend classes in the hope or supposition that you might learn something from the time spent there anyway.

The religious nature of any institution is secondary to this and it is prejudicial to try to affect otherwise, but for anyone who doesn’t espouse any religion to discourage the inextricable (but secularised) links between faith and education this will remain a permanent antagonism.

The old description of the CofE as “Christian in nature, catholic in practice” remains a good fit for a secular democratic culture, as seen in the victory over litergical dogma and convention for female priesthood, as well as marriage for the clergy, so by understanding the established practice within England as secular, democratic and personal rather than as “Christian” (or Islamic, or Jewish, for example) we arrive at a more accurate and inclusive description of the true situation.

That the CofE has begun fighting a rearguard action to consolidate its position in society from the percieved combination of threats from immigrant culture, declining church attendances and a sceptical public consistently electing neglectful, if not overtly biased governments (one way or the other) has meant our national church has changed to become a repository of overt proclamation, which is starting to challenge its private and secular basis and undermining its continued existence.
While the threats have been permanent and unchanging since before the CofE was established it is the changed political environment of the past generation that has lead to the requirement to reaffirm whatever faith we have in our systems, whether that refers to God, Government or the 3.30 at Goodwood.

The collapse of faith in our educational system has anyway lead many people to treat schools as a kind of extended daycare centre after they themselves became parents. So it is no surprise really that a movement has grown to reestablish the link between schooling and education by going back to the first principles of society, which were developed out of religion originally.

Secularism neutralises conflict by internalising belief and rising above the fray with calls for more and better evidence, whereas the practice of externalising belief by selecting specific cases to use as precedent causes conflict when contact with dissent cannot be avoided.

If we left it to people who took no account of faith or spirit we would have exchanged the dark satanic mills of the past for the halogen treadmill hutches we see rising in every business park across the land…oh!

Good article and I thoroughly agree. Kids are at school for less than 1200 hours per year, which is around 15 -20% of their waking lives. That’s little enough time for education without taking a tenth of it (even in non-faith based schools) for religion.

My own child is an atheist and I have sometimes wondered if I really made enough of an effort to allow her to develop her own views, but as she is also an admirer of the French post-modernists I guess I didn’t exactly brain-wash her to my way of thinking.

If we replaced ‘opt-out’ with ‘opt-in’ we might see a difference;

Dear parent/carer,

On such- a-date some students will take part in a gathering which will declare that Jesus is the King of Kings, wants us for a sun-beam and is meek and mild but can still burn us in hell if we don’t love him enough.

If this is how you want your child to be taught, please sign the reply slip below.

Good article and I thoroughly agree. Kids are at school for less than 1200 hours per year

If our head of state is just a show of the ways of the past then why can’t we view her positions otherwise in the same light?

The question I have about just how wonderous the voucher system is, is again one of the geography, and whether there are even options for some people to take the benefits they offer…and secondly if there are enough “good” schools that don’t by choice, if not state mandated, put an emphasis on christianity?

I’d be much more pro-voucher system if I didn’t have very grave concerns about the standards of British schools from corner to corner.

Declare a republic and disestablish the Church of England. Next question?

Seriously, the point I’m alluding to in raising the issue of vouchers – and which Matt has noticed in reverse – is that under a voucher-based system, laws that privilege Christianity in education (i.e. mandatory act of worship) and religion generally (mandatory RE) become unsustainable. You cannot equitably have a situation in which parents who espouse a particular religion can use their vouchers to go off and form a ‘faith’ school while those who espouse a secular philosophy cannot. Removing the legal provisions which require state-funded schools to provide religious education and a daily act of worship is a necessary concomitant of moving from a centrally controlled state education system to a devolved voucher-based system.

A voucher system is a means by which it is possible to decouple religion and education, at least for those parents who wish to do that for their children.

As for Lee’s comment about ‘marginalising’ religion – yes that is how some would interpret any move towards secular education in whatever form. It is, however, rather an odd view to take of a proposition that suggest only that if a parent wishes their child to receive religious instruction and participate in acts for worship then they should obtain that from a church.

We can all say, who cares what they say, but that would be ignorant to the influence of people who actually would be reacting badly to such suggestions and the delicacy of handling such a change.

And with that they may feel marginalised, how do we stop them from feeling that practising their religion is taboo and (worse still) that “recruiting” becomes something much more subtle and potentially dangerous (just see how extremists use fears of marginalisation to their benefit now)?

Matt, that’s what happens now, to vast swathes of non-religious and/or non-Christian children, my own included.

“How would a secular education system accomodate a multi-faith society?”

In a secular education system, there wouldn’t BE any faith schools in state education, religion would be taught in terms of “lots of people believe X, lots of other people belive Y” and if people want to indoctrinate their little dears into religion, they can do it at Sunday School (or Saturday, or Thursday night, or whatever)

The key to a truly secular and well functioning society comes from parents and understanding, and it is more that reason than logistics that I say that diversity wherever you are is unlikely to happen any time soon.

How would a secular education system accomodate a multi-faith society ? Inevitably someone would be disadvantaged, through either having to attend a faith school, or, possibly worse, having to attend the wrong faith school. Diversity can, at least theoretically, be accomodated in high density London and other big cities, but what if you were “the only (insert religion of choice) family in the village” ?

I agree with the voucher idea BTW, but it will never happen under this government, too de-centralised, too empowering, too little state control, and what would all the numptys at the LEAs do all day without admissions policies to fiddle with ?

Where do I sign up to make it happen?

There does tend to be less emphasis on the collective worship thing as you move through secondary school, I guess because the church figures that if they haven’t got kids into the local congregation by then, then its not worth pursuing.

At primary level, things are very different, not least because schools lose points on their Ofsted scores if they’re found to be skimping on the religious content.

Matt:

Sadly, no, the NSS couldn’t set up its own ‘faith’ school on that basis.

A secular academy benefactor would be an interesting proposition, however, given the sponsorship element involved. It would certainly be interesting to see how the government would react if someone did come forward with the £2 million to sponsor an academy on condition of setting up a secular academy.

Of course my religious path was set fair when the church of england rejected me at the age of six months. I was not allowed a christening because my parents didn’t attend church. I’m quite looking forward to joining the queue for my chats with Ghandi and voltaire in hell.

anyway – the schools I know don’t bother much with religious instruction or worship nowadays anyway. Changing the rules might tidy that up a bit. But in practice schools make the choice based on their head’s preference.

Great to hear that the liberal left are up for Swedish education vouchers. If you can just convince some left-wing MPs they’ll be in place in no time!